Last modified: 2011-10-28 by pete loeser
Keywords: ufe | unidentified flags |
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Identification Key:
= Positive ID (Positive Identification)
= Tentative ID (Tentative Identification)
= Some Speculation Some Speculation
Image by Esteban Rivera, 3 August 2011
In this 2009 movie, there's a scene where the two main carachters are searching in a warehouse where they find a cache full of explosives, and they come across an Arabic flag. The setting is in Iraq, and the flag seems similar to that of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Organization flag.
Esteban Rivera, 3 August 2011
I suspect it's fictitious. There is a shehada at the top, but with zero ornamentation in the calligraphy, there is a crescent (vs a full moon/disc in the one we have), and whatever's on the bottom is not "jihad" and doesn't look like the blurry lettering in "ours" either. It is obviously based on Zarqawis and conceivably could be a variant, though it's rare that Hollywood attempts such accuracy.
Albert S. Kirsch, 3 August 2011
This flag was from the movie "The Hurt Locker," so I include the movie name which mght help.
Esteban Rivera, 13 August 2011
#42a
#42b
#42c Calling on all expert vexillologists: I found some small photos of the flags from the Dido (Tsezy) website. I could positively identify only the flags of Gagauzia, Crimean Tatars and Buryatia (national one, not republican). The rest is Greek (or Turkish) to me, meaning: "I don't know" - does anybody?
Chrystian Kretowicz, 20 August 2011
Image by Sid Hart, 5 August 2011
I have a fleamarket stall in Cape Town and I sell on Bidor Buy and have many flags from the tanker ships, but this one has me stumped.
Sid Hart, 5 August 2011
Positive ID
Image by Clay Moss, 18 August 2011
I came across this flag at our local flag store. It's not an original but a modern nylon replica. I think it might be some type of Ottoman flag, but I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
Clay Moss, 18 August 2011
A couple of years ago, we made something like this for a customer. He called it the "Ottoman Religious Flag." I found versions with varying number of points on the stars. We settled on a 5 pointed version. (seen here).
Rick Wyatt, 21 August 2011
Thanks Rick! The 5 pointed star version is common in Malaysia today and can be seen flying over various mosques. I'm fairly certain now that the 8 pointed star is Ottoman, or at least influenced by old Ottoman flag variants.
Clay Moss, 21 August 2011
Such green flags with crescent and star, in slight variations of the design, but basically green variant of the Turkish flag, are more or less regular inventory of mosques in the Balkans as well.
Occasionally, and especially during the Muslim holydays the may be displayed from outside the mosque or hoisted from the minarets. I remember such flags being used in Bosnia already in 70's (and
probably also earlier, but my memory doesn't go so far :) Obviously, they are intended to represent the Islamic faith.
Željko Heimer, 21 August 2011
Positive IDs
Image from Esteban Rivera, 21 August 2011
I came across this link displaying two Mexican flags (and the Mexican flag itself). Can someone help me identify the two flags which are in white background?
Esteban Rivera, 21 August 2011
The first one (on our left) seems to be that of the Estado de México (State of Mexico).
Chrystian Kretowicz, 21 August 2011
The flag on the left of the Mexican flag is the flag of the state of Mexico, the most populous state in the country, which almost surrounds the Federal District (i.e., Mexico City). I tried to do some research on the one to the right, and all I could come up with, is that it is the flag of a college in Ecatepec or Metepec (you can see "tepec" in the bottom of the coat of arms) , two of the most important municipalities in the State of Mexico. Perhaps someone could improve this information.
Juan Carlos Jolly, 29 August 2011
I got a better look at the flag, and on the top and the right it reads: "DE ESTUDIOS SUPERIORES" (of Superior Studies), thus it is truly a University flag. The only thing that comes to my mind when Juan Carlos mentions the ending "tepec" is Chapultepec, but none of that comes as a result when I seek University flags under that name. So I guess we're gonna need further assistance on this.
Esteban Rivera, 30 August 2011
I proposed Metepec, a suburb of Toluca, the capital of the State of Mexico, and Ecatepec, a suburb of Mexico City (and the most populated municipality
in the country), which are the only "tepec" municipalities in the State of Mexico large enough to house a college or university. "Tepec" means hill, mount, butte, promontory, etc., in Nahuatl (originally "tepetl," but mistransliterated in Spanish to "tepec;" hence "Ecatepec" (hill of winds), Metepec (hill of maguey plants), Popocatépetl (smoky mountain, keeping the Nahuatl spelling), Chapultepec (hill of crickets), etc. It is a very common suffix in Mexican toponymy. Chapultepec is not in the State of Mexico, but in the Federal District (Mexico City). That's why I don't think Chapultepec is the word in the flag. I personally think is more Metepec than Ecatepec, but that's just a personal guess. I'll keep looking.
Juan Carlos Jolly, 30 August 2011
Combining it all: This would be the flag of Tecnológico de Estudios Superiores de Ecatepec
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 30 August 2011
Image by Ralph Bartlett, 21 September 2011
Currently, on behalf of Flags Australia, I am cataloguing the former flag collection of the State Library-Museum of Victoria, which has been donated to our Society. Amongst the flags, so far inspected was this attached flag, which was labelled with a sticky post-it note, "GUYANA (State Arms)". This flag was donated to the State Library-Museum of Victoria in 1992.
The two Jaguars, all be it reversed, are identical to those in the Guyana's Arms, and appear in the opposite order on the flag's reverse. The central Palm Tree is similar to the Palm Tree that appears on the then flag of the governing political party, Peoples National Congress (PNC). After discussing this with a Flags Australia colleague, it was suggested to me that it may possibly be the Presidential Flag for Guyana's President Hugh Desmond Hoyte (1985-1992). Another possibility, but less likely, is that it could even be the Prime Minister's Flag, who at the this time was Hamilton Green, who also served between 1985-1992.
My question is, can anyone please supply further information about what was
this flag's purpose ?, when was it designed ? and how long was it used for ? The flag itself measures 96 cm (3 feet, 2 inches approx.) high by 162 cm (5 feet, 3 inches approx.) long, plus the heading. The central vertical black stripe and arms are painted onto both sides of the flag's yellow field material.
Ralph Bartlett, President, Flags Australia, 21 September 2011
#47a
#47bI've come across a flag image printed on a British pictorial envelope, so it may never have existed in reality, but I was wondering if you or any of your colleagues might recognize it. I'm attaching the image (#47a), drawn by Henry Anelay for the League of Universal Brotherhood and in support of the Ocean Penny Postage movement in 1848. It's the one on the mainmast of the steamer (that is, the one that is not the British flag..).
A second envelope (#47b), stationary, actually, has a variant of the flag above . One may be correct and the other in error, or both invented again, I'm not sure.
Peter A. Shulman, Assistant Professor of History, Case Western Reserve University, 10 September 2011
Positive ID
Image by Kirby Mohr, 3 October 2011
I’ve got an old piece of porcelain evidently from the first days of World War I, it is labeled "1914" and "European War." It’s in English and shows the English, French and Russian flags and also one I can’t identify. The flag I’m wondering about is at the bottom right, the yellow doesn’t show too well, but I’m sure it’s supposed to be yellow because of the Czarist flag on the opposite side. It has three vertical stripes, with black at the staff, yellow in the middle and red at the outboard end. Any ideas what that might be? I suspected Italy, but the colors don’t seem right.
Kirby Mohr, 3 October 2011
My feelings is that it could not have been the Italian flag, since Italy didn't come into the war on the Allied side until much later than 1914. Most likely it was Belgium (black-gold-red), although they were neutral at first, the German path to France went right through them. When Germany rolled through Belgium in 1914, it began the war in earnest. The British came in joining France and Russia, so maybe that is why those four flag appear on the vase.
Pete Loeser, 3 October 2011
In August 1914, Russia declared war on the 1st, France on the 3rd, and Belgium and the UK on the 4th. Italy did not declare until 23 May 1915. As the vase says "1914," Belgium it is. The colors are clearly Belgium regardless. Also declaring war in 1914: Serbia 28 July, Nepal 4 August, Montenegro 8 August, Japan 23 August. Either these weren't considered for various reasons, and/or the vase was made in a very narrow window.
Nachum Lamm, 4 October 2011
Brave little Belgium...
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 4 October 2011
Perhaps the fact that the Belgium flag is included as the fourth flag, might it not only suggest the date of manufacture, but also the place? I wonder if there any indication that it was of Belgian manufacture?
Pete Loeser, 4 October 2011
Thanks to all, I was expecting a very narrow window of manufacture as well. The glory of World War I only lasted a few weeks before the horror set in. It does have a manufacturer's mark on the bottom and is English. If you are interested, there is a very revealing book called "The Donkeys" that describes the atrocious generalship of the British and French forces.
Kirby Mohr, 4 October 2011
Some Speculation
Image from Jennifer Jones,18 October 2011
Can anyone help identify this flag, now in the collections of the National Museum of American History? It seems to be an anomaly, due to the sun in the wreath, and the printing being outside the white of the field.
Thanks.
Jennifer L. Jones, Chair, Armed Forces History Division, NMAH, Smithsonian Institution, 18 October 2011
Here's some speculation. First, the overlapping arms are likely required by the squarish dimensions of the flag itself. It's worth noting that the sun emblem was known from early in Peru's modern history and is often seen on flags and proposed flags of Peru from the 1820s and from the time of the Peru-Bolivia Confederation in the 1830s. In the latter period, North Peru used the Peruvian national arms on its flag and South peru used the sun symbol. Could it possibly be the flag of some movement for a separate united Peru from this period?
James Dignan, 18 October 2011
The flag is obviously Peruvian. I have seen similar Spanish flags in the military museum in San Carlos castle (Porto Pi/Palma de Mallorca) a few years ago. A FOTWer, it might be Ian, denoted them as rucksack flags (colours of sheet, as usual, but the coat-of-arms just in black lines). We should have those flags within our Spanish pages. As far as I remember, they were from times of King Alfonso XIII.
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 18 October 2011
Perhaps you mean a Spanish Rucksack Flag. See Military Colours in the Military Museum of Palma de Mallorca.
Pete Loeser, 19 October 2011
Good recall! there are two more on Military Flags 1843-1931 (Spain).
Eugene Ipavec, 20 October 2011
Some Speculation
Image by Patricia Millar, 25 September 2011
I am curious about a flag in an image I am using in a thesis. The cropped image (attached) shows part of a crowd at the departure from Hobart, Australia, of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition in 1911. The flag is a dark background, light coloured saltire, with I think a harp in the lower left.
Patricia Millar, 25 September 2011
Not a flag I'm at all familiar with, and the presence of a harp (assuming that it is a harp) rather throws "the cat amongst the pigeons". The "harp" indicates a Irish connection, but theirs is (of course) a red saltire on white, without the "harp" however, one would automatically think of the Scottish flag (a white saltire on blue) defaced with a club badge (or similar)? There are considerably more saltires than just those two in the world (although the date would indicate a UK connection), so let us hope that someone with more expertise than I can come up with a definitive (or at least more acceptable) answer?
Christopher Southworth, 25 September 2011
My best guess is the obvious one - that the flag is the Scottish Saltire with the addition of a device that is unclear. Firstly, I have identified the source of the cropped image - it is a photograph of the Hobart Wharf half an hour prior to departure of the SY Auroroa. The photo was taken by Xavier Mertz, one of the expeditioners and it is in the collection of the State Library of NSW (aae_36779).
There are in fact two flags in the image, and whilst it is very unclear, the second flag appears to be the Australian Red Ensign, with only part of the fly visible in the photo. The saltire flag is slightly darker in shade, which would be consistent with it being a medium blue flag with a white cross.
Regarding the device on the flag, I do not think that it is a harp. If the alignment of the image is rotated, then I think that the device is more likely to be seen as a sailing ship - perhaps even a drawing of the Aurora. I think that the flag is being held upside down. If this is the case, then it would seem to be more logical for the device to be in the canton position (if the flag were held correctly).
The Australasian Antarctic Expedition of 1911-14 was funded by the Australasian Association for the Advancement of Science and by public subscription and donations. Given the prominent position of the flag in the crowd on the Hobart dock, it seems reasonable to me to speculate that the unknown flag was associated with the public fund raising efforts to support the expedition, than in a lower hoist position.
It is unclear as to why a Scottish flag would have been used as the base for such an expedition funding flag, as Douglas Mawson was an Australian (though born in Yorkshire) as were most of the expeditioners. The Steam Yacht Aurora was built in Glasgow, Scotland and was owned by the Dundee Deal and Whale Fishing Company - so the Scottish connection may have been related to the ship that would convey the expedition to Antarctica.
As an Australian vexillologist, I would of course be very interested to learn more about the two flags displayed at the dock-side at the start of this historic voyage of exploration.
Ralph Kelly, 25 September 2011
A harp indeed. See A harp in the South, Australian Antarctic Magazine, Issue 20: 2011.
Valentin Poposki, 25 September 2011
I'd assumed Valentin had his tongue firmly in cheek when he sent that message - like Ralph, I'm not even convinced it is a harp on the flag. Although Cecil Thomas Madigan was a meteorologist on the AAE of 1911-1914, it's his granddaughter, not Madigan, that is a harpist.
Jonathan Dixon, 21 October 2011